Wondermine
Wondermine
Season 2, Episode 5: Self-Care
Elizabeth and Larissa tackle self-care: what it is, what it isn't, and how to make it more doable and accessible.
Robert Kolker, Hidden Valley Road
Melissa Bashardoust, Girl, Serpent, Thorn
Audre Lorde’s self care quote is from A Burst of Light
Tamela Gordon’s Instagram post about how self-care needs to be accessible
Maintenance Phase Michael Pollan episode
NATO Cafeteria SNL skit
Robert Jones, Jr. on Substack
Noreena Hertz, The Lonely Century
Music by ZakharValaha from Pixabay
Music by ZakharValaha from Pixabay
Follow us on Instagram @wonderminepodcast
Welcome to Wondermine, Season Two. I'm Larissa Parson. I'm a joy coach, a movement teacher, a writer and podcaster, a mom to twins, a bit of a hippie, and this episode, I am no longer allowed to bring jigsaw puzzles into my house.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And I'm Elizabeth M. Johnson. I'm a parent, a partner, a rape survivor and writer. I talk about relationships, trauma and decision making. And I have recently rediscovered coloring sheets and pencils.
Larissa Parson:So fun. Yeah. So if you're new here, hello. We're the duo behind this feminist podcast that looks at the Wow and the how of living a life rooted in curiosity, community and liberation. If you've ever felt like something was missing, or you were missing something, Wondermine is the podcast for you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Thank you to our patrons, we're so grateful you're here. Being a patron starts at $5, $10 or $15 a month, Patrons get monthly bonus episodes and can participate in our virtual monthly book club starting in June, and so much more. If you too, would like to support the show--thank you!- you can do that by visiting patreon.com.com/wondermine. And if you cannot, we'd love you to leave us five stars on your podcast player. If you don't want to, that's okay, too. We're just glad you're here.
Larissa Parson:So today, we're talking about self care, just not quite in the way that you think. We're considering self care through the lens we're using this season - what we don't talk about and why. But as always, before we get started, we're going to talk about what we're reading. Elizabeth, what are you reading?
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I just finished a book called Hidden Valley Road. This book is a couple of years old but it just sort of came into my world in the past couple of weeks. And as usual, I borrowed it from the library. It is by a man named Robert Kolker and it's essentially a look at a family of twelve kids who for the most part are located in Colorado. And six of them are diagnosed pretty early on --as is often sort of the case with schizophrenia--six of them are diagnosed with schizophrenia. It is a really fascinating look into some of the things that I'm super interested in: relationships, impact of trauma, and things like family dynamics. So Kolker spends an incredible amount of time interviewing most of the siblings--the siblings who are still alive (that's not really giving away very much) and talking with them about their experiences living in this family. I like it for a number of reasons. But I do think it's an important rebuttal of the"kids are resilient" narrative, which I still see used a lot. And while children are resilient, we are all resilient. There are some stressors that we should never experience and that obviously will be harder to get over, if we can ever get over them. So very, very fascinating book. If you're interested in families, family dynamics and relationships, I definitely recommend checking it out.
Larissa Parson:Very cool. So Elizabeth, what I am reading this week is Girl, Serpent Thorn, by Melissa Bashardoust. And it is this, why a fairy tale drawing on sleeping beauty and Persian literature and mythology. And it's really cool. It's got elements of magic and elements of romance. And, you know, bad guys and good guys. By guys, I mean people. And there's bi representation in it, and the people you think are going to be the bad people turned out to be good, and the people you think are going to be the good people turned out to be bad. So there's this real like, complexity of character, which I always appreciate, in a book that I know has basically a happy ending coming. Like, I I don't want it to just be black and white. I want it to be a little more nuanced than that. And I really appreciate it and it was just a fun read. Lots of fun.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:"Contemporary spin on old fairy tale" esque.
Larissa Parson:Yes, yeah, but it's definitely in like a mythological time setting.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Oh, okay. Gotcha.
Larissa Parson:Yeah, yeah. So highly recommend if that's the kind of thing you like, I think I gave it four stars or something like that on my Goodreads so it was a great read, not like a mind-blowing, amazing read, but really just solid. And that's it.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Neat.
Larissa Parson:Oh, yeah, thanks.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Okay. Um, can we start this conversation about self care by talking about what it actually is? We hear a lot of what self care looks like or sounds like or is supposed to be. But as I think you and I've talked a great deal before and as we're prepping for this episode, some of that language, recommendations thinking around is really problematic. So maybe a definition would be a good place for us to begin.
Larissa Parson:Yeah, and I think we've really been playing with this definition quite a bit, I can think of multiple walks, where we've been like, what is self care anyway. So...and I think that we're going to offer a definition, but knowing us, as we learn more, grow more, rest more, reflect more, it will probably change. But for right now, we have this. Self care is nurturing ourselves, through acts of love, and with intention. I love that. Like, I love a nurturing ourselves.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I like it, too. I am trying to have us avoid using care as part of the definition, which is really, which is really tricky. Because listeners who have looked for definitions will find self care has "care" in the definition. And I just struggle as a writer, and a lover of words, with that. I get why, but I liked this. I like where we're at with this. I also like the pieces that have to do with intentionality. And so I like that bit in there.
Larissa Parson:Yeah, yes. So when we think about intentionality and self care, I always love to go back to thinking about self care as a revolutionary act. And as a way of resisting the system. And for that, I always like to quote the OG of self care, Audre Lorde. And the entirety of this quote, as opposed to the one sentence that usually gets quoted."Caring for myself is not self indulgence. It is self preservation. And that is an act of political warfare." And she goes on to say--this is the important part, "overextending myself is not stretching myself. I had to accept how difficult it is to monitor the difference." That's to say the difference between overextending and stretching, because stretching is okay. Overextending is not. So what we're talking about when we talk about self care is not necessarily fancy spa days, though, yes, that can be an act of political warfare as well, right? Like we can choose that. But mostly, we're talking about noticing when we are over extended, and refusing to engage in the overextension that capitalism demands of us. That is the revolutionary part of it. That is, the radical part of it is saying, "I am not going to engage in over extension. Instead, I'm going to nurture myself with acts of love, and intention."
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I want to go back to Audre Lorde, just a second here, because I think it's really important. This(quote above) is part of a really interesting, bigger, longer quote, which we did condense down here just slightly, but the context is solid. And I think it's important to say that this(self-care) is something that Lorde literally worked on --and I'm no expert here, but I have read a lot of her work-- this is something she worked on for her entire life.
Larissa Parson:Yes!
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah, this was a continual process. This was a process through her cancer journeys, right, and through her different relationships, through the different work that she was doing. So this is not --it's a noticing in the moment when we're there and from a day to day-- but it's also noticing, as a lifelong kind of process or practice that we put ourselves in.
Larissa Parson:Yeah,
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And this overextension piece. I think it feels like... not a small thing, but it all it feels like... a vague idea. What does that even mean? What does it mean when we get overextended? I'm definitely prone to-- let me speak for myself-- I'm prone to pushing through something even when I am at my creative end with it or even when I am tapped out or even when the words are not coming. So like I noticed it, whatever, three o'clock, four o'clock when the day is done, or even when I'm really done, like after dinner in a meeting and I'm kind of really grasping for a word or something like that. I'm just like, "I'm just trying to push through this and this is this is not my best work." I should probably just stop.
Larissa Parson:Yeah. Yeah, for me over extension tends to not quite look like that. But it does tend to look like, well, I'll just do this one more thing.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:That too.
Larissa Parson:Or I will plan a really busy day even though I'm tired. And that's usually what happens. Or I plan a day with no breaks in it, or not enough breaks in it. So that is often what it looks like for me. I'm really proud of myself, as a sidenote, Elizabeth last night, I had a thing, and I realized I hadn't done it. And it was 10 o'clock. And I was like, Oh, it'll just take me 20... No, going to bed. Stop.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah.
Larissa Parson:Like, just that moment of noticing. I had this impulse to do the thing. I don't have to.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah. Yeah.
Larissa Parson:So, so, self care is often offered up to us. So like with this idea that self care can be a revolutionary act, or we can change the system with self care. But no amount of self care is going to change the system unless we add community into the care. And we can't self care our way out of a pandemic. We can't self care our way out of cis hetero normative white supremacist, ablest capitalist patriarchy. It's because self care is a life long.... thing. Quest was the word that was coming to mind.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Process?
Larissa Parson:It is, it is something that doesn't go away. We don't like, (do) self care, and then we're done. So it's when it's offered to us as an individual solution to problems that are actually systemic, that just... it messes with us mentally. And there are lots of different problems where self care is offered up as the solution, oh, you're burnt out? Self care will fix that. Oh, you're overwhelmed by the amount of emotional labor it takes to raise a child during a pandemic? Self care will take care of that. Just get a bubble bath, that will take care of that. You know, you don't need childcare. You don't need a universal basic income, so you can afford things. Traumatized by medical providers who don't listen to you because of the scolor, the color of your skin or the size of your body? Oh, self care will help you recover from that. Like, let's not train providers to be better at working with humans. Self care will fix that. Yeah,
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I think these are really good specific examples of how we see self care used as a tool that one can"indulge in or engage in" which really can't change any of the systemic problems that are really getting us to a point of exhaustion, or burnout or traumatized or being in a traumatized state. And I want to go back to the idea of community here and just we're gonna bring this idea into this conversation more during our time together today and the fact that we can't self care our way out of a pandemic. So this is why we're talking about this topic this season. Because we really haven't heard as much about the messaging behind self care. Which I think is the self improvement kind of hype-y stuff. It's like, if you do this (thing) you will be better, you will be cured, you will be stronger, you will be healthier, you will be normal. And it's this constant push to improve ourselves, to better ourselves. And these messages, we really need to name as the oppressive tools that they are, and really start to notice how they show up both in our own dialogue with ourselves, but also in what we're exposing ourselves to within our greater community or whatever we're reading or looking at, we're watching, etc. But something that I think you're also challenging here is who gets to access self care. I think you'd think of the bubble bath or just go on a spa day, or if you're traumatized, maybe just go get some help, or whatever. But is this open to anyone? We know that this is not the case.
Larissa Parson:Right. I love Tamela Gordon's way of talking about this, and I don't have a quote right up, like right here. But we will link to something in the show notes about the accessibility of self care. Basically, her point is, if you're selling self care, is it really accessible if it requires you to buy $100 face cream to do it? There are lots of...does it require you to have a bathtub to soak in? Does it require that you have time to go see a mental health provider or insurance or find it or money?
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Or even to find one who's culturally competent or close in your neighborhood or network.
Larissa Parson:All of that. Yes, exactly. So, so many, there are so many barriers to a lot of the self care that we are told we need to do. And there are many ways to care for yourself that don't require any of those things. And I'm like, Yeah, I want systemic change so that we can all see providers who are culturally competent to work with us, and are nearby and are financially accessible.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah. So you're bringing us to this point of what really gets in the way of our self care? And I want to spend some time on that too. Right. So it's really important to name here really clearly, that not everyone gets to access self care in the way that it is marketed to us, or that it is talked about with us.
Larissa Parson:Yes.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah. What does get in the way of self care? Let's like really bring this home and be crystal clear, I think.
Larissa Parson:Okay. So like I was saying, I want systemic change, because that is the big picture. Yeah, what, and what gets in the way of self care is often a lack of community care, that includes systemic care. That's the big picture community that we're talking about the lack of childcare, lack of health care, etc. It can also look like the smaller communities we find ourselves in, it is easier to make time for self care when you are held in community, because then you're not the only one doing everything. You know?
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yes.
Larissa Parson:So that feeling that feeling of being the only one doing everything is often a highly gendered feeling. The cultural expectations of women require that we provide so much care to others first, just so much care. And I really don't want to be super cis normative here. But I am being super cis normative here, I just want to call that out. Like I Yes, I am, I'm doing that. But we are told that we need to provide so much care to other people first, and then we get to fill our own cups. And, and I think that maybe like a little bit of perfectionism comes into play here, not only do we need to do it all we need to do it all well. But to go back to community, you need your right people, and right relationships, in order to have that support to make time to take care of yourself. That might look like a meal train, after anything, surgery, a divorce, a move, anything. It might look like a regular lunch date with friends, it might look like the text you send to check in on your friend who is going.... I was gonna say who's going through a hard time, but like, just check in on your friend, period.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:This is a theme that we come back to--because Larissa and I feel so strongly about this -- time and
time again on this show:the idea of right people and right relationships. They just literally will save us, they literally will be the thing that saves us.
Larissa Parson:Yes.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And that's our individual change that we can make. And we are also fully recognizing that we cannot,--even with all of that -- we still need these systemic changes to happen. So we can have space even like a systemic change, like things just like you just mentioned, universal basic income. But if we cannot get the big thing right now, here are some of these other smaller things that we can do-- smaller in the sense that it is something that we have power and control over -- which is realizing and actively building and prioritizing right people and right relationships. And I think that something that's tricky here is there's a real--well, different people call this different things-- but there's a real toxic individualism or hyper individualism or bootstrapping kind of mentality, just get it done when it comes to self care. Right. So mentioning this community aspect is really, really important. Because I cannot think --and I am as a survivor and I've spoken to other survivors about this survivors who've endured some really brutal things over the course of their life--but there is a lot that maybe not necessarily it doesn't get fixed, but it feels better when we talk about it with our right people or right relationships.
Larissa Parson:Yes, yes, yes.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And that right there is an act of self care, right? The idea that I'm going to talk with this person about this thing that is just feels so gross or shame-y to me, or I'm really embarrassed about. It (talking) dissipates a bit. The power of that dark emotion-that's a Miriam Greenspan term- goes away. Even slightly, maybe big, maybe small but it goes away a little when we talk about it with someone who gets us. And that is a right person or right relationship.
Larissa Parson:Yes, yes. I think that connecting with people who get us--right people, right relationships--helps remove the layer of toxic individualism that we place, or our culture places, over self care, like you were saying. When we start thinking that it's all those, these doable things are all up to us. Like these little things, like, the non-systemic things, it's just down to me, then we get caught in our own heads, and we start thinking about, well, I need to, I need to, I need to do this thing myself. I don't, I can't rely on anybody else in my life to do this thing for me, or to help me do this thing or support me in doing this thing. And that, again, leads us back to that perfectionistic thinking that, well, if I'm the only one who can do it, then I have to do it perfectly, or it's no good. And so I think it's important to emphasize that self care doesn't need to be something that we end up being perfectionist about, it's very easy to fall into that trap, just like with pleasure, because pleasure can be part of your self care, right? So just like the pleasure, we can start thinking that our self care needs to look a certain way, especially if we look at all the marketing about self care. And that's just wrong.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah, yeah. And I go back a lot to that example that you used in season one -that episode on play, I want to say, like Episode Four --you said, "Well, you and I just talking together is like a form of play." And I was like, "that's so interesting,"
Larissa Parson:Right. because we get in our minds, our heads about these concepts about what play needs to look like this. We need to be in a game or in a in a moment of like spontaneity or climbing something or something really like fun or something that looks active. But it's just perfectionism. Something needs to look a certain way. Self care can kind of feel that way too and it doesn't have to.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:It also feels important to say that self
Larissa Parson:Yeah. An aspect of my own self care that's become a lot less rigid care can change, right? If it's this practice, we're involved in, we're noticing this throughout the course of our is when it comes to certain foods. You know, I was a life where we are overextended and how do we dial back from that. And how do we rest and care for ourselves? So there's going to be changes throughout our life where self care is going to look different. lifelong vegetarian from early high school through right before I had my daughter. I had no children and my partner was a chef and a baker. I had many friends in the food industry and this all made it really easy for me to not deal with any meat. But when my kid was born I was ravenous. I could not and I struggled -- I was breastfeeding her all the time --I struggled with getting full and just feeling like like I was constantly behind the eight ball feeling really hungry. And my neighbor -- you know speaking about communities -- my neighbor brought me food. And she didn't we hadn't lived there very long. She's just a lovely woman. And she had just bought a bunch of things from Southern Season. I miss that place.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yep, same. She brought me some some sliced, smoked ham and really beautiful cheese and some breads and some other stuff. And I ate some of it and I was so glad. I was like so happy I did. But I struggled. I'm not even joking. I struggled with the guilt about this for years, like I don't even know... five years. And I would eat some meat and I hate myself for it because I was a vegetarian. I really had some strong beliefs around what that meant. And now at this point, I am basically only eating pork, trying to get it as local as I possibly can. Most of the time, that's totally not perfect. I just just do the best I can with this. Because I know being overly rigid when it comes to food not only leaves me effing hungry, but it also makes me really bitchy.
Larissa Parson:Yeah
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I'm really unpleasant to be around while also leaving me overly focused on food. So those are like three really unhappy ways to be and that's where a little of where that past (change in self-care) has come from for me. It's that process and that practice that continues.
Larissa Parson:Yes, yes, Elizabeth, I feel like I love, I love hearing this story about you, because I didn't know any of this before we were working on this episode. And I feel like so many people's lives would improve with less rigidity and fear around food. And I think that, you know, y'all! Go listen to the Maintenance Phase episode about Michael Pollan. And start unwinding that a little bit. Yeah, I think that's a really good place to start with unwinding some of that rigidity. And, and, to go back to I also had this other thought, while you were speaking, I was like, oh, to go back to some of the stages of life and what self care looks like in different stages of life. And to call back to Tamela Gordon's work, like what what does free or very low cost self care look like? I am remembering. Like, I grew up taking baths, I love taking baths, that was great. But I remember being in grad school only having a shower. And using a bowl to soak my feet, and to take care of my feet. And that was a ritual that I engaged in every week with, you know, like$1, a dollar bottle of nail polish, probably Wet N Wild from the drugstore. But that was one of my self care rituals was this thing. It was, it cost almost nothing to soak my feet in some water with a little soap, and clean them up and polish my nails. It took time. But I could study while I was doing it or whatever. Yeah. So anyway, just throwing that out there as a ,as a like, these are the..and that was a stage of my life, that was a very important ritual for many years.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah, I think this is also one of these ways that we can---when something doesn't work for us, for whatever reason--I know some survivors who would absolutely avoid it, like a hot bath completely, just not good for them. They don't like it. But still, we all deserve to soak our feet, and maybe just feel a little bit more relaxed. And whether we're soaking your feet and doing our little cute toes, or we're just putting some Epsom salts in there, or whatever it is. But just to kind of soak and sink in the very nature of this(self-care) process can be really relaxing. And it's also another piece, right? And we'll get into this titration idea, but this is a piece that you can control.
Larissa Parson:Yes!
Elizabeth M. Johnson:That you can take some, you know, ownership around and see how it works for you. Um, I would say I think it's important to note that for me, this is something I've long advocated is that the higher level of stress I'm under, the greater quality and quantity of self care I need. So I rest more when things are really, really hard. I will eat more prepared foods, I will cook less, bake less that kind of thing. And there's an inverse relationship there. Like the greater the stress, the more you need to do this.
Larissa Parson:Yes, I absolutely. I agree. And this is why I was but and I feel like there's a yes. And here there's like multiple actual tendrils of Yes. And here, one of them is, this is why I can't have jigsaw puzzles anymore, because I was under under a tremendous amount of stress. And all I did was a jigsaw puzzle last week. I could not work. And that was important and necessary. And I need to find another way! It's too absorbing. So I need to find another way to self care that can be split up better. And and I also want to say that often the higher level of stress and challenge that you're under, and the more self care you need, the harder sometimes it is to get it unless you have community to support you. Yep, yep, that's right. I'm just throwing that out there. Because I really think. I really, really think, again, I want to call out the system on this. Because part of that stress is systemic. For so many of us, anyway...
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah because it's exhausting.
Larissa Parson:really exhausting. Completely exhausting. Yeah, it's just existing,
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Just existing is completely exhausting. And that will ebb and flow, right? Your level of exhaustion on a regular basis, too. So I want to add here that I think that we -- and this is something that sometimes I get some pushback on and I am happy to have the pushback--but I do believe that we need to aim higher than simply taking a shower or eating lunch as self care. And I get it, that showering can feel like self care. When we are attached to a newborn. I've been there. I totally get that. And it is not self care. These are really basic human needs that we need to attend to. We need to be clean. We actually have a home that we can live in. And we have running water and an indoor bathroom. So we can do these things. But there are basic human needs that we must meet in order to function in healthy and safe ways. We do need to aim higher with some of this. So lunch is not self care. It can look like self care, right? It can be, and so can the shower, right? And Larissa, you're laughing here..do you want to say what lunch as self care might look like? Because I think lunch just eating something is not necessarily it.
Larissa Parson:Yeah, I'm laughing because for much of the pandemic lunch has been on my self care list of things, because it's been really challenging. Potato chips for lunch, y'all for three straight years just ain't self care. That is not self care. Something with protein is self care. It's only the self care that's still meeting my basic needs.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah.
Larissa Parson:I want to say if you're at showering and eating lunch, you're not alone. It doesn't have to like yes, that can absolutely, if that, if you are not yet meeting your basic needs, then that is where your self care needs to lie. And let's expand that concept of eating lunch, to having a friend bring over some lunch and spend some time listening to me. or figure out a way to make eating lunch a ritual that is pleasurable. And it doesn't take much. It just takes one breath before you start eating.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I think the example of someone who's in an office, or a teacher, you know...so what does that (lunch) look like? You know, lunch is...
Larissa Parson:barely a minute...
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And I would also say it's probably not that way every single day.
Larissa Parson:No.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:There are pockets of space. And we're getting a little ahead of ourselves with tools. But we have to notice where the pockets are and seize them. Just like they are gold because they are gold before us. And if we don't see that they are gold before us. We miss it.
Larissa Parson:Yeah,
Elizabeth M. Johnson:There are gold pockets. We just need to take them into our hands.
Larissa Parson:Right. So like, so like to go back to the lunch example. And then we'll we'll start making start moving towards tools. I think in a minute. Yeah. But I think with the lunch example, you know, can somebody take for me... it's always, can somebody take my kids so I can have some alone time? Can I have lunch by myself? Can I have lunch with a friend? Can I drink, drink my drink slowly at lunch? Like, it doesn't have to be a whole lot. And I really, for those of you who are feeling disconnected and alone and isolated, just because it's called self care doesn't mean you have to do it alone. It can be like I'm gonna meet up with my friend, or talk to my friend on the phone while we both soak our feet in a bowl of water.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah.
Larissa Parson:And sometimes actually adding somebody in for that-I'll call it accountability-can, having a buddy can make it easier to do some self care.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Literally, I was just gonna say that! Get a friend. Sometimes the friend makes the self-care decision easier to do. Because it could be accountability or maybe just their presence. It's their encouragement that they think it's a valid thing. And...going back to lunch, then maybe you just walk outside after you have eaten your snack or your sandwich. But whatever your lunch is, maybe you just take a little bit of a walk around. Even if it is a walk outside your classroom, maybe you can't leave the building for whatever reason, got it. But even if it's just a walk outside your cubicle, or a walk around your office, or a walk somewhere in the neighborhood or something like that, just to kind of give yourself a little bit of a break there. That counts.
Larissa Parson:Yep, you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:But if you're someone who's loves a shower, let's make it more self care-y. And just here's some things that you can do to make that like more self care like. First, I would say just take some time in there. You can, instead of the usual in and out, luxuriate in the heat, breathe deeply in the steam, drop a little bit of an essential oil in there and breathe that in. Or get a shampoo brush --my daughter didn't like her hair washed we had a little shampoo brush--and scrub away. Just notice how that feels when you've got a brush on your scalp and what that texture is like. Does that feel good? Try it for a second. If it doesn't feel good, obviously stop. But massaging the scalp is also good. That just feels really good. Or you can do things like oil up. Put a little oil on there (your scalp) or get a salt scrub or some kind of like scrubby soap. My sister gave me this choco Body Scrub which has some dead sea salt in it and it smells like chocolate. But also grainy and coarse. And I was putting on my elbows and my heels in the shower and that felt really good. So that feels nice or maybe get a loofah that you especially like, or like some sort of like pretty little bath sponge. Or -- and this is the point where I'm just gonna say just like, close your ears for a second if you're not up for any kind of like sexual content and give us like 10 seconds and then you can open your ears back up again -- go ahead and masturbate in the shower. Just try it. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe it doesn't work for you. Maybe this is new, shame-y or weird. And that's okay, I totally get it. But trying something that's new is also self care.
Larissa Parson:Trying something that new is that's new is also self care. I love that. And I love a good shower orgasm. Glad my parents don't listen.(laughter)
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Sexual content over now. Uncover those ears for those who didn't
Larissa Parson:Yes! want to hear that or that doesn't feel good to them today. Okay, so let's do you want to say something else? Or should we bring home to tools? Let's flesh this out a little bit more. Because I do like to think ideas(of what self-care can look like) are really important. Sure. Sure. Okay, so one of the tools, tools, one of the ways I engage in self care that I also talk to my clients about a lot, especially folks who are trying to have a better relationship with their bodies, but aren't sure how to start, one of my favorites... like, to like, if you want to have the super shower, you got the shower that Elizabeth just told you about. And then when you get out of the shower, taking an extra oh, 20 seconds to intentionally when you're lotioning up or oiling up your body after the shower, do it with love. With the, like, "I am loving on my body, when I put this lotion on," with that kind of intention behind it. And I do that every day. When I get out of the shower, I love lotions and oils and things. So that is one of my favorite self care things. And it doesn't matter what kind of lotion you're using. It can be anything. Whatever you're using, just emulsify it in your hands a little bit and think about loving on your body. You don't have to even say I love my body so much, it could just be like I am caring for my body with love.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:And if that idea feels weird or sort of uncomfortable for you, because you are a trauma survivor, I think a really good example that's worked for a number of survivors that I've known, is putting some lotion on your elbow. It's not a hand, it's not a foot, or on the back and neck or belly or anything like that. The elbow is a place that doesn't get a lot of love, right? It's an elbow. And you can try that and just try it. What's the motion there? See how that feels. You're like, "Oh, that felt okay, that was great," then maybe you want to do something you want to do like an upper arm, the next time you try this? Or maybe you just stick with the elbow. But just to do little bits at a time.
Larissa Parson:Titrate it? Yes. Thank you, Elizabeth. Thank you for bringing that in. Yeah. Let's see other self care practices that I engage in. Listening to my body and noticing what it really wants. So right now, it's mostly about sleep. Sometimes it looks like going to bed earlier. Choosing lighter reading material. Movement is pretty much always part of the picture for my body, my body wants to move even when I don't feel like it. Just sometimes it's stretching, just stretching on the couch. It doesn't have to be getting up and going for a walk, though for me that is really essential. Sometimes it's recognizing about what no longer serves me. So like, again, this is a noticing thing is this thing I'm doing really working for me anymore? Maybe I don't teach a certain thing or I don't pick up a hobby that's not really interesting. When I finally gave up on the idea that I wanted to sew my own clothes, it was so freaking liberating. That's also, like, noticing that I was devoting mental energy to this idea that I needed to do this thing they didn't actually want to do. When it's optional, right? And often, I find that again, to go back to the idea of like eating lunch with a friend asking myself what would make whatever hard thing is happening a little bit easier. What would make that thing easier? Would it be easier if I sent a text to my friend Elizabeth and said, Elizabeth, I am going to do this thing. Can you check in with me about it later? And of course, always, always, always time with my right people.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah, this is such a great list. So I mentioned the food stuff already. But also for me that's been really important is massage as non sexual touch, which can be really healing to sexual abuse survivors. And that's actually something we'll make a note of in the show notes, but there's a great new book called Black Joy. And the author mentioned this a little bit and I think this is super interesting. But it (massage) is something that I only prioritized -but also felt like I had the financial ability to do - in the past five or six years. Deep care work is really important for people who do work with vulnerable populations, people in crisis dealing with a lot of trauma--as I have--and I'm often on, on in multiple capacities and massage allows me to be in a safe space relaxed and have focused on me and off. Also rest. And that's something that I've kind of gone back and forth with but it could be like just closing my eyes for 10 minutes, or it could be laying down for 30 minutes, even if I'm not actually sleeping.
Larissa Parson:Yeah,
Elizabeth M. Johnson:I do a walk every morning. With no phone. Some distance like around me, I can just wander my mind can wander I can just like do whatever. I'm also a big -- I don't watch anything really-- except I love Saturday Night Live reruns. And so like I will watch those because they are just always hysterical. And there are certain ones that I go to like NATO Cafeteria, and they're just like, really, really funny. My friend Darrell also sends me memes on Instagram. And of course, like one (piece of self-care) that's like huge for me is reading. Every day there is some reading, multiple reading in different ways. And if you don't get Robert Jones Jr --he's the author of The Prophets--his newsletter, he just started doing it. He said this, which is so great, "One of the ways in which I restore myself when I'm feeling depleted, is through the act of reading. " Me too Mr. Jones. "Reading is not merely a practice in which I am temporarily escaping the world's harmed, it's also a space where my creativity is inspired. My strategies for resistance are shaped, and my compassion is magnified." With that, may we
Larissa Parson:Yes, yes. Love reading, love memes. I will take all your memes. I love them so much. I want to go back really briefly to when you mentioned massage and having resources for massage Elizabeth, I know that massage is one of those things that I also love that has fallen off of my list lately, partly mostly due to time and needs to get back on it. But I do want to say that many areas have accessible massage practices. So if you look for things like community massage, that's probably a good Google term to search for or community massage clinic. I know Durham Bodywork is one of them, places where locally, you can get massage that is not... like, that has sliding scales. And, like, a lot of practitioners in this area are really looking to make it accessible to more people. And there's so many ways that practitioners do this kind of thing. And in many other places, too, you know, like many other different modalities I was gonna say. So just throwing that out there that massage doesn't have to be something that you have to have a certain amount of money to get. It makes it easier, but you can certainly access massage. Okay. Um, other all read more. examples of self care that came through, we put out a call in our Instagram Stories for some other examples of self care. So here's some of the answers we got-- being outdoors, journaling, solo travel, talking to kindred spirits. Stretching, eating food, I made cozy PJs, a good book, again, we love to read. I love to read. Bone broth. And I asked my Slow Burners also. So what do y'all do for self care? What do we need? What else do we throw on this list? And, you know, there were some really great answers. One that I really loved is building rituals around taking medications and supplements, and building rituals around care in general so that it's part of your day. It's, it's ritualized. It's like brushing your teeth, it's not something you have to make extra time for, because it's just part of the day. And had making standing dates with friends was another one and a big picture (form of) self care, recognizing your capacity for work, for care, for whatever, for care for others, I mean, whatever, and setting boundaries around that capacity. And that again, goes back to the not overextending part of what Audrey Lord says. So...
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Let's wrap up with some tools. Right. We've touched on all of this, but I feel like let's name them as tools now. What do we need to make this happen more for us.
Larissa Parson:Time. Community.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yep.
Larissa Parson:Curiosity, willing, being willing to try new things, because you might find something that really works. Yep. What else?
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Titration. So we talked about that. Just trying something, just trying the lotion on the elbow just for a little bit, trying it for a couple of minutes, see how that works. And then build up to the rest of the arm or your hand or whatever, if that works for you. Nap / rest is that way for me, you know, an hour is not really right. For me, I really need a shorter amount of time. If I'm going to lay down probably like 30 minutes, or just noticing that bit and building up to it and seeing what works.
Larissa Parson:Yeah. Noticing, like, you know, like noticing is part of titration. Right. Yeah.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Anything else? Also right people? Yes. Right people and right relationships? Right?
Larissa Parson:I think yeah. Oh, can we put pleasure in and play on that, too?
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Oh, yeah. Okay, pleasure and plays as tools?
Larissa Parson:Yeah. Because play is part of the curiosity bit and pleasure is like, not all self care is going to feel pleasurable. Really, like, sometimes you're just taking your supplements and you don't feel anything, but you feel less bad. But sometimes self care can be deeply pleasurable.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yep, yep. Yep.
Larissa Parson:So as we're wrapping up, we're not going to get into this. We're not gonna talk about this. Here's a question for you. Yeah. Do we think that creating the conditions that we all need for accessible self care... Like, I think that that involves reimagining entirely the way our society functions and if I could dream a world where we all have access to everything and anything that we didn't everything we mentioned it anything we didn't mention, that is the world I want to live in.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Yeah--and we don't have time to get into this--but it's also making me think of a book that I just picked up and it's about loneliness. The author is Norena... something. I literally just got it and flipped open. It's one of these books where they talk a lot about the problem and then have like, you know, 1000 words related to possible changes. But one of them was like, we really need to look at what neoliberal capitalism is doing to us and the communities that we live in. And so I think there is absolutely this reimagining that needs to go on, reimagining and then yes, rebuilding.
Larissa Parson:Yes.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Can we close with what we're eating though? Let's go there. Do you want to dive in there?
Larissa Parson:Yes, sure. I'm, I have two things. One is the strawberries that I have been getting from the CSA have been mind blowingly. Yes. Delicious. Like, like mouth gasm. Mmm. Just so good. Maybe that's where I should stop. But I also made myself breakfast this morning. I took like, two extra, 10 extra minutes to make breakfast. And I had like, a sandwich. But it was a fried egg and bacon and cheese. And it was delicious. And you know, that is when you just have something that just hits you just right. So yes, that is what I'm eating. And I'm so freaking happy with it today.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Nice. My kiddo did a lemonade stand last weekend. And we were making some simple syrup. And I was like, Oh, I've been getting some lavender simple syrup at Cloche(coffee in Durham) when I've walked there, in my cold brew or whatever, my latte. And it's really an interesting taste with the coffee and the cream. And so I thought maybe I can just put some lavender essential oil in my simple syrup and see how that works out. I'm playing with that a little bit. It's delicious. And it's simple syrup. It is really easy to do..like shockingly easy. I was like "how do I make simple syrup?" but I have made it and it's become so thick and viscous that is just like a syrup as opposed to kind of something you can pour and blend more easily. So anyway, lavender simple syrup and really like it. I'm putting a couple of drops of lavender essential oil in it, and it's delicious. So it's kind of fun.
Larissa Parson:That sounds fabulous. So in the spirit of neoliberal capitalism, what are the ways yes, that we can engage in self care? We're not really well, yes, no, we're stuck in a capitalist system, y'all. So sometimes we need to sell our work. So one of the ways we can engage in self care is seeking help when we're in need of help. And I've opened up a few one to one coaching spots this spring and summer. And together we can get clear on your "how" and you get to come hang out with us in the Slow Burn. So if you're interested, you can message me. No pressure, but there it is.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:Nice self care and community already established. Just join in with someone you know. Thanks, Larissa.
Larissa Parson:So if you'd like to support our work here on the podcast, you can head on over to patreon.com/wondermine where you'll have access to our bonus episodes and whatever other awesomeness Elizabeth and I cook, cook, cook up on our walks or sitting by a pool or whatever.
Elizabeth M. Johnson:We're so grateful every time you share Wondermine with friends. Giving us five stars or writing us a review will help others find their "wow" and "how" of living a life rooted in curiosity, community and liberation.
Larissa Parson:And in the interim, you can follow us on Instagram @Wonderminepodcast. Thanks again. We are so delighted that you've been listening
